Category Archives: Television

The 35 most iconic scenes in “EastEnders” history

Next week, EastEnders celebrates its 35th anniversary. While producers have promised some amazing and gripping scenes as the citizens of Walford take to the Thames for a death cruise, there are plenty of great moments to look back on.

As a lifelong EastEnders fan—I began watching from America on PBS when I was about 8-years-old—I decided to look back at 35 years of action in Walford, ranking the 35 greatest scenes in EastEnders history.

35. Linda and Martin “kill” Keanu (2020)

It’s not even been two months since Martin Fowler, on the orders of Ben Mitchell, was meant to kill Keanu Taylor. A drunk Linda Carter stopped that from happening, instead orchestrating a coverup. The convergence of two of EastEnders’ major storylines—Sharon and Keanu’s affair and Linda’s alcoholism—this was a return to form for the show and will be remembered for years to come.

34. Reg Cox’s body is found (1985)

Keanu might have survived, but the same can’t be said for poor ole Reg. EastEnders debuted on 19 February 1985 with the murder of pensioner Reg Cox. Arthur Fowler, Den Cox, and Ali Osman find him murdered in his flat (by Nick Cotton, as we later find out). Putting us right in the middle of the action from the very first scene, EastEnders showed from the very beginning it was unlike anything British tv had seen before.

33. Mark tells everyone his is HIV+ (1996)

When Peggy Mitchell found out Mark Fowler was HIV+, she orchestrated a hate campaign against him. In these scenes, Mark confronts her prejudice—and the prejudice of the community—by giving them the facts and insisting that he be served in his local. The are moving scenes proving that throughout its run EastEnders has never shied away from tackling controversial and topical issues, always with compassion and care.

32. Sonia has a surprise baby (2000)

“Well if your school had a sex education teacher they should sack him!” is still one of my favourite lines in EastEnders history. After a brief liaison with Martin Fowler, teenaged Sonia Jackson—who had no idea she was pregnant—went into labour. With the help of Mo Harris, Sonia gave birth to daughter Bex in this dark but comical scene that served to both continue the Fowler/Jackson families and establish Laila Morse (who plays Mo) as one of the greatest comic actors the show has ever seen.

31. Lou Beale’s home truths (1988)

Lou Beale knew she was dying, but she wasn’t going to go quietly into that gentle night. Rather, she gathered her family around to give them a piece of her mind (and a few heirlooms). It’s a classic scene in which Anna Wing shines as Lou, and reminds us that EastEnders is always at its best when it centres strong, smart women.

30. Pat and Peggy get drunk in an ice cream van (2009)

The friendship between Pat (Pam St Clement) and Peggy (Barbara Windsor), two of the most iconic characters in EastEnders history, is enough to make this scene stand out. Throw in a bottle of vodka, a bunch of sweets, and a peeved Shirley Carter and Phil Mitchell and you’ve got one of the funniest scenes the show ever did.

29. Nick Cotton kills Eddie Royle (1991)

It’s hard to pick out Nick Cotton’s most evil deed, but murdering Eddie Royle has to be near the top. The greatest villain in the soap’s history murdered poor Eddie and then framed Clyde Tavernier for the crime. It was the start of one of EastEnders’ most compelling stories to date, exploring racism in the criminal justice system and the perceptions of Black boys in modern Britain.

28. Syed admits he’s gay (and in love with Christian) (2011)

EastEnders has never shied away from telling compelling stories about LGBT people, and the journey of Syed Masood is one of the best in the show’s history. Syed didn’t expect to fall in love with Christian, but their connection proved too much for him to ignore. It’s hard to pick just one scene from this story of faith, family, and acceptance – but this, when Syed finally admits the affair to his family and friends, stands out.

27. Jim Branning proposes to Dot Cotton (2001)

I love a good romance, and it’s hard to beat the love story between pensioners Jim Branning and Dot Cotton. Neither one of them expected to find love again at their age, but find it they did, beginning one of the greatest partnerships in EastEnders history. Jim’s proposal to Dot on the London Eye is the most romantic scene the show has ever aired.

26. Johnny Carter comes out to his father, Mick (2014)

EastEnders has had many gay characters over the years, but never has a parent’s response to their child’s coming out been as pitch perfect as Mick Carter’s was when his son Johnny came out to him. Letting Johnny know that Mick loved him unconditionally, he gently coaxed his son into finally opening up. It’s still hard to watch this with dry eyes, and that’s down in no small part to the brilliant, compassionate performances of Sam Strike and Danny Dyer.

25. Phil sets fire to Frank’s car lot (1994)

You’d be forgiven for thinking that Phil Mitchell is a bit of a pyromaniac. He famously set fire to the Queen Vic in 2010, but before that, he set fire to Frank Butcher’s car lot in 1994. Frank wanted to burn down the car lot for the insurance money, but what neither expected was that there would be a man there sleeping rough. That man died, and the guilt of his death has haunted Phil ever since.

24. “Hello, princess” (2003)

We all thought we’d seen the last of Den Watts when he died in 1989. No so! Despite having identified his body years before, Sharon was stunned when her father showed up in Walford very much alive. He’d be dead again soon enough (thanks to wife Chrissy and Pauline Fowler’s doorstop), and years later Kathy Beale would pull her own Lazarus stunt. But few things have surprised us more than the resurrection of Dirty Den.

23. The fire at the bed and breakfast (2011)

There’s so much going on here it’s hard to know where to begin, but what makes this scene truly iconic is the stellar performances by Nina Wadia and Ace Bhatti. Evil Yusef had been abusing Zainab for months, even threatening to kill her son. Plotting her escape with ex-husband Masood, Yusef caught them and set fire to the B&B in an attempt to kill him. Turning the tables on her abusive husband, Zainab convinced him his daughter Afia was in the burning building. The look on Yusef’s face when he finally realizes Afia is outside—right before he dies—is one of the most haunting yet satisfying moments in the show’s history.

22. Ronnie and Roxy drown in a pool (2017)

I hesitated to include this moment at all because I know how much people hate it. To be fair, I understand why. Killing off Ronnie and Roxy (and on the night of poor Ronnie’s wedding, at that!) is one of the greatest mistakes in the show’s history, and this scene is certainly one of the most controversial, at least among diehard fans. But it’s specifically because of that controversy that this scene belongs on this list. It was the end of an era as the Mitchell sisters bowed out and a lesson to future producers in thinking twice before you kill off one (let alone two) fan favourites.

21. Cindy Beale flees with Peter and Steven (1996)

Dastardly Cindy never took to married life or motherhood, cheating on Ian not once but twice—including with his half-brother, David. When Ian found out, he threatened to sue for custody of their children. Not having that, Cindy hired a hitman to take Ian out. She had a chance of heart at the last minute, but it was too late, and Ian was shot. Panicking—and realizing the police were hot on her tail—Cindy kidnapped her two sons but was unable to get her daughter, Lucy, instead leaving with her ragdoll. Cindy would later die giving birth to Cindy Jr, and both Lucy and Steven would meet grizzly fates of their own.

20. Whitney confesses that Tony has been grooming her (2008)

One of the most distressing but relevant storylines of the 2000s, Whitney’s confession that Tony has been sexually molesting her from the time she was 12 was difficult viewing in 2008. Shona McGarty and Patsy Palmer have a real chemistry that really sells the stepmother/stepdaughter relationship between Whitney and Bianca, and Shona especially gives a moving performance as Whitney comes to the realization that Tony didn’t love her, he abused her.

19. Jane admits that Bobby killed Lucy (2015)

The culmination of a nearly year-long mystery, on the 30th anniversary we finally learned who killed Lucy Beale. In one of the most shocking twists in EastEnders history, Lucy’s murderer turned out to be none other than her 11-year-old brother Bobby. Laurie Brett gives a heartbreaking performance as Bobby’s mum Jane—who kept his involvement a secret for months—and Adam Woodyatt really conveys Ian’s shock as he realises the truth. All this is made even more remarkable by the fact that it went out live.

18. The first gay kisses (1987/1989)

EastEnders—and Sir Michael Cashman–made history with the character of Colin Russell, the show’s first gay character and one of its most popular in the late 1980s. In 1987, the show broke new ground when it showed Colin kissing his boyfriend Barry on the forehead—the first gay kiss in soap history. They went a step further in January 1989, airing a kiss on the mouth between Colin and his new boyfriend Guido. Looking back, it’s hard to see what all the fuss was about—but it was one of the riskiest and most controversial moments in the show’s 35-year history.

17. Ronnie realizes Danielle is her daughter (2009)

Ronnie Mitchell never could catch a break. Having given birth to a daughter just a teenager, Ronnie’s evil father Archie told her that the baby had died. Instead, Archie gave the girl up for adoption. Years later, Ronnie’s daughter, Danielle, turns up in Albert Square looking for her mother. Ronnie finally learns the truth and accepts Danielle—only for Danielle to be mowed down by Janine Butcher moments later. Samantha Womack’s piercing cries of “she’s dead!” still give us chills after all these years.

16. Trevor attacks Little Mo on Christmas Day (2001)

Warning: these scenes are very distressing. One of the most harrowing storylines EastEnders ever attempted was the abuse of Little Mo Slater by her husband, Trevor Morgan. For a year we watched as Trevor abused and tortured his poor wife in some of the most difficult viewing in the show’s history. This scene—which transmitted on Christmas Day 2001—is among the most memorable ever because of its sheer brutality. Viewers watched in agonizing horror as Trevor humiliated Little Mo, violently shoving her face into her Christmas dinner. He got his comeuppance the next year, I’m happy to report.

15. Mel leaves Ian after their wedding (1999)

If there is one consistent truth that runs through all 35 years of EastEnders, it is that Ian Beale is a wanker. He lied about daughter Lucy having cancer in order to get Mel to marry him. She found out mere minutes after their wedding on New Year’s Eve 1999, and in one of the greatest lines ever “Well guess what, Ian? I don’t love you, and I never have done,” Mel told Ian to bugger off as Walford rang in the new millennium.

14. Frank’s bowtie (2000)

Pat and Peggy spent a lot of time fighting over Frank, but you can hardly blame them once you see this scene. Charming wide boy Frank Butcher showed up on Pat’s doorstep wearing nothing but his birthday suit and a spinning bowtie. Of course, his wife Peggy didn’t know where he was, but that didn’t matter. This scene is instantly iconic and provided the internet with one of the greatest gifs ever – nothing screams “I quite fancy that” like Frank’s spinning bowtie.

13. Tiffany Mitchell dies (1999)

It’s hard to explain just how popular Martine McCutcheon’s Tiffany was in the late 1990s. When McCutcheon decided to leave to pursue her music career, producers killed her character off—a real shame, because who only knows what could have happened with Tiffany had she ever decided to return. Her death on New Year’s Eve 1998—run over by Frank Butcher (father of Janine, who herself enjoys a bit of automotive homicide) at the stroke of midnight following a fight with husband Grant Mitchell over their daughter Courtney—is one of the most tear-jerking in the show’s history.

12. Hassan Osman’s cot death (1985)

In the show’s first hard-hitting, topical storyline, Sue and Ali Osman’s infant son Hassan dies unexpectedly. Sue’s struggles to come to terms with her son’s death would be a central focus of early episodes, and baby Hassan’s death was itself a shocking moment. It set the standard for EastEnders storytelling—focusing on real issues real people face, but doing so with such compassion and humanity.

11. Phil and Grant crash into the Thames (1999)

No two Walford siblings have a more complicated relationship than Phil and Grant Mitchell. When Grant slept with Phil’s wife Kathy to get revenge for Phil having, years before, slept with Grant’s wife Sharon (who is now Phil’s wife, though he’s probably going to divorce her—like I said, complicated), Phil confronted him. It resulted in a car chase through East London, Phil trying to shoot Grant, and a crash into the Thames. Both brothers survived, though, and eventually made up—well, sort of.

10. Bradley falls off the roof of the Queen Vic (2010)

EastEnders doesn’t shy away from big, flashy stunts, but few can compare to the 25th anniversary episode. The culmination of the “Who killed Archie?” storyline, chief suspect Bradley Branning fell to his death from the roof of the Queen Vic while on the run from police. As it turns out, Bradley didn’t kill Archie—his wife, Stacey did. It remains the gold standard in live episodes and murder mystery reveals, and Lacey Turner and Jake Wood deserve special praise for their performances as Stacey Slater and her father-in-law Max Branning.

9. Phil is shot (2001)

In March 2001 the nation was asking itself one question: “who shot Phil Mitchell?” It was a gripping storyline precisely because most of Walford had a motive to shoot the hardman. The storyline dominated tabloids and was even covered by the evening news. In the end, it was revealed that Phil’s estranged partner Lisa was the culprit, though Phil eventually forgave her and, in 2019, they were even able to laugh about it. Good times.

8. Den Watts “dies” (1989)

The Mitchell brothers weren’t the first gangsters on Albert Square. In the late 1980s “The Firm” reigned supreme. Den Watts, the archetypical Walford bad boy, incurred their wrath when he used one of their cronies to burn down the Dagmar (in revenge for James Willmott-Brown raping Kathy Beale). Den was sent to prison for arson, but The Firm still thought he was a liability so orchestrated his “murder” in early 1989. Fourteen years later, of course, we’d learn that he had faked his death—but at the time, we all thought we’d seen the last of Dirty Den, the undoubtable breakout character from the original cast.

7. Dot helps Ethel die (2000)

Few soap characters are as beloved as Ethel Skinner. A cantankerous pensioner who lost her family to a doodlebug in the war, Ethel and Willy (a dog, not a penis) were two of the most delightful creatures to ever trot across Albert Square. With her health failing, though, Ethel decided to go out on her own terms. What transpired was some of the most touching scenes and most compelling story in EastEnders history as Ethel’s best friend, devout Christian Dot Cotton, wrestled with whether to help her friend end her own life. Dot eventually does agree to help Ethel, and it is perhaps the most moving scene in the show’s history.

6. Max’s and Stacey’s affair is revealed (2007)

Max and Stacey have such an exhausting history now that they’re a bit of a punchline, but back in 2007 their affair had viewers gripped. Stacey married Bradley Branning while carrying on an affair with his father, Max. It all came to a head on Christmas Day 2007 when Max’s daughter, Lauren, put on a DVD that ostensibly showed Bradley’s and Stacey’s wedding but which had also caught Max and Stacey doing the dirty. The look of horror on Jo Joyner’s (Tanya’s) face as she realizes what she is watching is both heartbreaking and riveting. Watching this unfold was a bit like watching a trainwreck—cringey and uncomfortable but impossible to look away.

5. “You bitch!” “You cow!” (1998)

Pat and Peggy might have wound up great friends, but they weren’t always so chummy. In 1998 they were fighting over—who else?—Frank Butcher, and in the process gave us one of the greatest rows in television history. Pat taunts Peggy about how Frank loves her more, Peggy taunts Pat about how she can’t arouse her own husband, and then they physically attack one another. If you say “you bitch!” in the right tone of voice, chances are someone around you will respond with “you cow!” – proving just how iconic this scene is.

4. Janine pushes Barry off a cliff (2004)

Look, I could an entire list of 35 of Janine Butcher’s finest moments. Stabbing herself to frame Stacey? Killing Michael and then blaming Alice? Her row with Laura right before Laura took a tumble down the stairs? All great moments. But Queen Janine’s finest—read: worst—moment is undoubtedly her first kill. Janine married poor Barry Evans for his money, thinking he was dying. When it turned out that Barry wasn’t dying, Janine took matters into her own hands and shoved him off a cliff on their honeymoon. While I always maintain that Janine didn’t mean to kill Barry, she certainly sat by and watched him die.

ICE. COLD.

3. Den serves Angie with divorce papers (1986)

“This, my sweet, is a letter from my solicitor telling you your husband has filed a petition for divorce.” Those words still give me chills. Feeling that her marriage was about to fall apart, Angie Watts faked cancer to keep husband Den around. Of course, he found out because that’s a dumb plan, and he was not at all happy when he did. On Christmas Day 1986 Den served Angie with divorce papers – and more than 30 million people tuned in to watch.

2. Sharongate (1994)

There will never be another soap opera storyline quite like Sharongate. Certainly there will never be one as popular and gripping. Playing out over the course of not months, but years, Sharongate centered on the love triangle between brothers Phil and Grant Mitchell and the woman they’d both end up marrying, Sharon Watts. Sharon initially fell in love with Grant and went on to marry him, but in 1992 she had an affair with Phil. This continued to play out for another two years, coming to a head in 1994 when Grant discovered a recording of Phil and Sharon together—playing it at the Queen Vic for all of Walford to hear. It’s a legendary moment, one that still gets mentioned in casual conversation and even on the show.

1. “You ain’t my muvva!” (2001)

It’s hard to think of a more shocking moment in soap history than when Kat Slater revealed that sister Zoe was actually her daughter. Conceived when Kat’s uncle raped her as a young girl, Zoe grew up thinking her grandfather was her father. The truth came out when Zoe decided to move to Spain with her mother’s rapist uncle—and with that “You can’t tell me what to do, you ain’t my muvva!” became an iconic phrase. Michelle Ryan (as Zoe) and Jessie Wallace (Kat) convey the depth of pain, shock, and urgency these characters are experiencing. Nearly 20 years later, it remains the single greatest scene in EastEnders history.

 

Do you agree with my choices? Or do you think there are some glaring omissions? Leave your favourite scenes in the comments below!

Skylar Baker-Jordan has been writing about UK and US politics for more than a decade. His work as appeared at The Independent, Salon, Huff Post UK, and elsewhere. He lives in Tennessee. Follow him on Twitter or become a supporter by contributing to his Patreon account.

20 questions with… EastSiders creator and star Kit Williamson

Most people will have first met Kit Williamson when he starred as Ed Gifford on the Emmy-winning series Mad Men, but now he’s best known as the creator, writer, producer, and director of EastSiders, the Emmy-nominated web series about a group of LGBT friends living, loving, and often lying in Los Angeles. Its fourth and final season premiered on Netflix last year, and a new documentary about the creation and production of this seminal show was released last month.

EastSiders is for many Millennial gay men what Thirtysomething was to our parents in the 1980s—an honest look at our lives, our failures, and our world. This isn’t the sanitized version of gay life often presented in mainstream media. Williamson’s writing is fearless, tackling everything from toxic masculinity to STIs to, most notably,

Central Park Van Hansis and Kit Williamson

Van Hansis as Thom and Kit Williamson as Cal in EastSiders

nonmonogamy. In doing so, he’s created fleshed-out characters the likes of which are rarely seen on television but are frequently found in gay villages across America. This is a show by the queer community, for the queer community.

Kit Williamson was kind enough to answer some questions about his work on the show, from the roller coaster ride main characters Thom and Cal take over the course of four turbulent seasons to the importance of queer cinema to scene-stealing Kathy’s (Constance Wu) thoughts on Cats. If you haven’t seen EastSiders—and you really should—beware of spoilers below.

 

Skylar Baker-Jordan: First of all, congratulations on an amazing run and an amazing fourth season. How does it feel now that it’s over?

Kit Williamson: It’s bittersweet but the response has been really satisfying—we wanted to end things in the right way and I really hope that we did!

SBJ: I first watched EastSiders when it was on YouTube, before the first season was even complete. I was living in Chicago at the time, and spending a lot of time in London, and remember thinking just how authentic these characters felt. I hope you won’t bristle at the comparison, but really reminded me of Lena Dunham’s Girls—raw, unflinching, zeitgeisty—but for gay men. How important was it to depict gay men as we really are—warts and all?

 KW: I’ll take that as a compliment! Clifford (Jake Choi) actually tells Thom (Van Hansis) that his writing is like “The Velvet Rage as written by Lena Dunham for Modern Love.” One of the primary reasons I wanted to make the show was because I was frustrated with the ubiquitousness of unrealistically aspirational queer characters. It’s important to have role models, but equally important to tell stories about characters with flaws and complexities that blow up their lives and pick up the pieces. Otherwise, you run the risk of making people who make mistakes feel isolated and alone and broken compared to the perfect lives they see on TV. But we all make mistakes and we all feel isolated and alone and broken sometimes.

SBJ: So many of the actors are LGBT. Was this intentional, and did it add to the authenticity of the series?

It was absolutely my intention to create an unapologetically queer universe, because TV networks don’t seem to want to greenlight this kind of story. It’s great that we finally have a seat at the table in mainstream media, but it’s equally important to tell stories about issues that impact our community without worrying what a mainstream audience will think about those issues.

SBJ: Crowdfunding was so instrumental to the success of the show, but as you point out in the documentary, there are many limitations to producing a series this way. How is crowdfunding changing the nature of Hollywood—for better and for worse?

I think crowdfunding has allowed independent content creators to take their careers into their own hands—you don’t actually have to wait for the industry to give you its stamp of approval in order to go out there and make art. I don’t know what the long-term ramifications will be, but indie television is only growing; Sundance, Tribeca and SXSW are all programming episodic blocks and the market is growing.

SBJ: We’re both from the south (you’re from Jackson, Mississippi; I’m from rural Kentucky). I’ve since moved back south, but like you, I ran off to the big city in my twenties and found the experience liberating.  What would you say to LGBT kids living in Mississippi or Kentucky now, who might watch EastSiders and think “That’s the life for me?”

KW: I’m glad that I left but a part of me will always wonder how my life would have turned out if I had stayed. I now know many out, proud LGBT people who live in my home state and I’m absolutely in awe of them. The world is changing, even in Mississippi, and all of the progress we’ve made in the south is thanks to them.

SBJ: I find the road trip arc the most narratively compelling of the entire series, because it is so character driven. In the documentary, though, you talk about the struggles you had shooting the road trip scenes in season three, from homophobia to just simply logistical and financial constraints. Why was it important to you to take these characters out of the city and force them on the road despite how hard it was to film?

I really do want to Make America Gay Again. I was really inspired by the idea of staking a claim to the tradition of the great American road trip movie. If you’ve never driven across the country it’s hard to wrap your head around just how vast it is—this country is almost the same size as Europe, and the culture varies wildly from state to state.

SBJ: Speaking of the road trip, one of my favorite scenes is in episode 3×5, when Thom and Cal are sitting by the campfire. The episode is titled “Our Own Private Idaho,” so I assume you were conscious of My Own Private Idaho as you wrote, blocked, and shot the scene which mimics the famous campfire scene from that film (even down to the conversation Cal and Thom have, which echoes that of River Phoenix’s and Keanu Reeves’ characters in MOPI). How important has gay cinema been to your development as a filmmaker?

KW: I honestly don’t know if I would be here if I hadn’t discovered gay cinema. Representation is transformative, and it gave me the tools to envision a future for myself. It’s also given me a purpose—I hope my work can empower others the way that queer cinema empowered me growing up.

SBJ: One of the most relatable arcs, to me, is the struggles Thom and Cal have as artists—the ups and downs and the side hustles so many of us have. Why did you decide to make Thom, a writer, and Cal, a photographer, both artists?

 KW: Thom and Cal are both observers, struggling to make sense of the world around them as queer artists. This theme is really fully realized in their role in season 4—at this point they’ve worked through most of their issues and are really just debating the future of their relationship. It’s not really a question of if they’ll break up, just what kind of commitment they’re both looking for. And they’re watching the other relationships around them attempt to navigate these questions, just like the audience is. In many ways the final season is a dialectic on love.

SBJ: After three seasons of portraying Ian dating women, in season four starts seeing and fucking men (and we find out he has done so in the past). Why explore Ian’s same-sex attraction now?

KW: This storyline has always been something I’ve been interested in exploring, but I’ll

John Halbach

John Halbach as Ian in EastSiders

be honest that my hand was forced because Brianna Brown got pregnant and asked us to limit her involvement, and ABC wouldn’t release Constance Wu. It’s become a bit of a recurring theme that every season I’ve had to write multiple versions of the script for Ian. I’m really happy with how the storyline came out, and the feedback has been incredible.

SBJ: I want to talk about Quincy’s issues with Douglas and drag. I cheered when Quincy’s mom and later Ian asked him what he expected when he started dating Douglas. What was Quincy expecting his relationship with Douglas to be like, and why was this storyline—about drag and masculinity—important to you?

Willam 1

Willam Belli as Douglas/Amber Alert in EastSiders

KW: When we first meet Quincy, he’s kind of the headliner of the parties that he throws, but as Douglas starts getting more and more successful as a drag queen Quincy gets relegated to booking his gigs. By season 4, he’s basically there to hold Amber Alert’s purse, and that’s hard for him. He and Douglas are also pretty different in that Quincy loves to play dress up in certain contexts, but also wants to put on boy drag and take pictures for Facebook. They fought about this as early as season 2, when Douglas wants to wear a dress to Cal’s gallery opening because he has a gig afterwards. I really wanted to explore something a little bit more complex than the typical “masc for masc” story, where the waters are muddy. Nobody would accuse Quincy of being a self-hating dude bro, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t worried what his mother might think about him getting married to a drag queen. We didn’t ask to be burdened with these kinds of insecurities as queer people—they were battered into us by society as kids. I wanted to examine the different ways people process with and work through those insecurities.

SBJ: One of the prevailing themes of the series is monogamy vs open relationships. Obviously one of the central struggles of the show is Thom and Cal learning to navigate an open relationship, but there’s less discussion (nuanced or explicit) about the pros and cons of monogamy. (We get a little of it with Derek and Jeremy in season four with regards to marriage and children.) Why was it important to you to show an open relationship, and is it a more realistic approach for modern couples?

KW: I think monogamy, even in queer relationships, is usually assumed to be the default, complete with all of the baggage of heteronormativity. Cal and Thom’s entire arc in season 1 is about them attempting to force themselves into a mold that they don’t fit. Jeremy and Derrick are kind of the opposite; their dynamic isn’t working, but it has nothing to do with either of them wanting to sleep with other people. I wanted to represent as many different kinds of queer relationships as I could to show that there is no one “correct” way to be in love.

SBJ: Jeremy and Derek have the most traditional love story of anyone on the show, ending up with the lovely home and even a child. In hindsight, it was clear from season one that Jeremy wanted just that. Is this sort of modern, urban love story—lonely gay guy falls in love with the handsome doctor, adopts a child, and lives happily ever after—a fairytale or do you think it can really happen?

KW: I loved subverting the idea of “the other woman” with Jeremy. Kathy even calls him “Jezebel” in season one. So having him end up in the most traditional partnership was a

Matthew McKelligon Scout Burke

Matthew McKelligon as Jeremy and Scout Burke as Sam in EastSiders

fun arc to navigate. That said, I don’t think their story is a fairytale—they were on the verge of breaking up before the adoption went through, and like all the characters, they still have a lot of things to work through if they’re going to be happy. Otherwise Jeremy’s fear that he’s become a “Big Little Lies” wife just might become his reality.

SBJ: In season one and two, Cal is reluctant and uncomfortable opening the relationship, but by the end of season four it seems Thom’s the one having doubts about the arrangement. I never really believed that Cal was completely comfortable with it, though. Was he?

KW: I think Thom finally gets a taste of his own medicine in season 4—the problem for both of them isn’t really sleeping with other people, is poor communication and callous disregard for the other person’s feelings. When Cal throws up his hands and starts behaving like Thom, I think it teaches Thom how his selfishness has hurt his partner through the years. Everyone’s a little bit selfish—we’re all human—but you always have to consider your partner’s needs.

SBJ: One of the most interesting and frustrating moments of season four was, for me, when Cal wants to “make love” and Thom invites Jared over. I just wanted to shout at Thom “not now!” Thom is almost preternaturally incapable of reading Cal’s emotions or figuring out his needs. Do you think they were, as Thom later said to Cal, just “fuckbuddies” by that point, or was there still love there?

KW: I think people have an incredible ability to justify bad behavior, especially when they’re holding onto grievances. Thom was jealous that Cal got to act out a sexual fantasy on the day he was flying back from NY, and decided that meant he got to act however he wanted—but he’s not reading the room, and he misses a real opportunity for them to reconnect and work through their feelings. This really puts them both into a place where they aren’t communicating, and they don’t really hash things out until the second to last episode. I think they’re avoiding the subject because they love each other—we often avoid dealing with the real shit because we’re afraid of hurting the people we care about and end up accidentally hurting them as a result.

SBJ: The contradictions in Cal are really fascinating to me, especially this season. He was pissed when Thom hooked up with Clifford in New York but ends up doing the same thing with Logan a year or so later in almost a perfect role reversal. He says he doesn’t believe in marriage yet craves intimacy and commitment in a way Thom almost seems incapable of giving him. Both Thom and Cal are very complex characters and very well written. I guess my question here is can you explain to me where you think these contradictions arise from (if you even agree they’re contradictions), and why it was so important to show such layered and flawed characters?

Jake Choi Van Hansis

Jake Choi as Clifford and Van Hansis as Thom in EastSiders


KW: I think it’s important to take into account how much has happened between Thom/Clifford and Cal/Logan. Basically their “rules” have eroded so much that they’re almost nonexistent, so there’s no betrayal there—but Cal should obviously have considered how Thom would feel to come home and find him with another guy. Both Thom and Cal’s journey is really about them figuring out exactly how they feel about all of these issues—it’s possible to want opposite things at the same time, and that’s a tricky thing to navigate.

SBJ: I feel like I’ve bashed Thom a lot here, but I found him extremely compelling (and Van Hansis is just a phenomenal actor). Why didn’t we explore more of Thom’s backstory to discover what it was that made him so broken?

We hint at it a lot in season 3, in his scenes with Arlen the drifter in episode 3×02 and the campfire scene in episode 3×05. They connect in part because they’re broken in the same way. We don’t see a lot of Thom’s relationship with his family because he doesn’t really have a relationship with his family; the absence of those characters is intentional. That’s made him really self-protective, and there’s a fine line between self-protective and self-centered.

SBJ: Has Kathy seen the new Cats film and, if so, what did she think of it?

KW: She fucking loved it. And honestly, she could’ve saved that movie.

SBJ: What was your favorite or most memorable moment on set?

KW: The wedding was really magical; we had 100 kickstarter backers on set as extras and it was such an amazing full circle moment getting to meet these people who helped make the show exist.

SBJ: What’s next from Kit Williamson?

KW: Stay tuned! I have a movie and a new series in development that I can hopefully talk about soon. Mostly I just want to keep telling queer stories.

SBJ: Despite their love, Thom and Cal really have a knack for hurting one another. Do you think these crazy kids make it?

KW: It’s not about the destination, it’s the journey. They’ve loved each other through thick and thin for 7 years—to me, no matter what happens next, they’ve already “made it.”

EastSiders is streaming now on Netflix

Skylar Baker-Jordan has been writing about UK and US politics for more than a decade. His work as appeared at The Independent, Salon, Huff Post UK, and elsewhere. He lives in Tennessee. Follow him on Twitter or become a supporter by contributing to his Patreon account.